A little divisiveness, please

Because some things are worth dividing yourself from.  It’s one of those “let’s write ‘dog’ on the dog” moments.  Sadly, I will be at the dentist all morning, and at a science fair all evening, so I hope the comments don’t get too insane.

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38 comments

  1. I’m not sure it’s such a good idea to take off and leave Mark in charge. The inmates have taken over the asylum.

  2. Gee thanks. Yeah, the real problem is the guy opposing the Jew-hating nutjobs. Divisive.

    How’s the reading comprehension coming along, Matt?

  3. Ms. Fischer’s thesis is that traditionalists who are likable and decent need to distinguish ourselves from traditionalists who are nasty and anti-semitic. What Ms. Fischer misses is that the difference is not one of degree but of nature. These “antisemetic” traditionalists she’s ranting against aren’t really traditional at all- they’re sedevacantists and schismatics. We’re no more responsible for their ideology than Hindus are for the ideology of Buddhists, who began as a breakaway from Hinduism. Second, why does she speak of traditionalists in the third person (they/them)? Aren’t all Catholics supposed to value tradition? Isn’t that one of the features that distinguishes us from Protestants?

  4. And you guy, quit mocking Mark Shea. I totally loved him in Austin Powers when he played the character “Fat Bastard”.

  5. It’s as if you are proposing that all traditionalists (undefined) are anti-Semites (also undefined) until they/we offer sufficient proof (also undefined) to the contrary. Ironically, that’s the sort of persecutory, scapegoating pseudo-logic used by anti-Semites! What even brought this subject to the fore? What’s the motivation for attacking the integrity of an entire class of people you’ve never met?

    • “It’s as if you are proposing that all traditionalists (undefined) are anti-Semites (also undefined) until they/we offer sufficient proof (also undefined) to the contrary.”

      It’s not “as if” I’m doing that. I’m simply not doing that. You would know that if you had read my post.

      “Ironically, that’s the sort of persecutory, scapegoating pseudo-logic used by anti-Semites! What even brought this subject to the fore?”

      The fact that Gonzalez, beloved by Rorate Caelae, attacked the Pope. You would know that if you had read my post.

      ” What’s the motivation for attacking the integrity of an entire class of people you’ve never met?”

      I have met them, and I stated several times that I was not attacking “an entire class of people” (although “class” is a bizarre word to use). You would know that if you had read my post.

      It seems like what you did was read the headline Pewsitter made up. You will have a much better understanding of my post if you read my post, as well.

  6. By suggesting that Catholic traditionalists are anti-Semites by default, you are also suggesting that Catholicism is traditionally anti-Semitic.

  7. Simcha, the religion of Judaism has always been Anti-Christian, so why should we Catholics who are aware of it’s history be demonized as anti-Semites for denouncing and fighting it? It’s the same tactic the abortion zealots use on pro-lifers, calling them anti-abortionists.

    • Go ahead and read what the last several Popes have said about our relation to the Jewish faith (I put links in my original post). You might be interested to learn that Judaism is not the equivalent of abortion. (And I’ve gone on the record as being a proud anti-abortionist. We’re supposed to be “anti” things that are flagrantly evil.)

  8. Is it merely coincidental that the moment Pope Benedict stepped down, the tradition-bashing begins? It seems that the “professional Catholic” literati have a strong knowledge of theology and apologetics but feel insecure about their lack of knowledge and appreciation concerning Catholic liturgy, art history, etc. Their motto could be “Proud too be Catholic, just not too Catholic!” Shame on EWTN/NCRegister for publishing material so far out sync with the facts and with the views of its own supportive readers.

    • It was just the opposite, Michael. The very second Francis’ name was announced, the anti-Semitism began. The radical traditionalists’ shameful attacks against Francis are the only reason I wrote the original post.

      I was too busy being happy about our new Pope, and didn’t even think twice about “What would the traditionalists think?) until I was chastised, less than 24 hours after his election, for being too happy. Yep, that’s right: bells still ringing, crowds still gathered, and I was told that my joy was inappropriate. And Rorate Caeli started launching bombs right about that time.

      For the record, I wrote a blog post rejoicing when Benedict issued the motu proprio. I don’t go out seeking enemies! I only “bash” people who’ve done something wrong.

      • Don’t you just love groups that use the latin language as a club. “Rorate Caeli” was like really cutting edge liturgical development in the 600’s when Jerome translated the Bible so that people could actually read it. By now it’s so reactionary that aspiring SS men are warned against joining – “bad form.” The fascististic pathos of this misnomer is that latin is the mother tongue of really cutthroad murderers, who would have these “liturgical reformers” on a burning boat to Crete. Who you are depends so much on who you want to be. These people want to be a ludicrous mockery of beautiful and precious things which they patently ignore the truth of.

  9. Holy moly, Simcha. I’m an ex-Catholic secular Canadian who checks in with you because I think you’re funny, and I’m pretty horrified at the com-box. I can’t *imagine* (roll eyes, sarky-sarky) why you might suggest that some traditional Catholics are anti-Semitic. Wow.

    • I don’t think that Simcha is suggesting that traditional Catholics are antisemitic, but rather that antisemites are not really Catholic at all.

  10. Well, I guess your hope for the comment box was in vain. God help us. For the record, I abhor anti-semitism and think that Mr Gonzalez’ attack on Pope Francis was shameful.

  11. The hard thing about telling it like it is, is that you catch hell from both sides. The original post was exquisitely reasoned, morally balanced and fair. It reached an impeccable conclusion. That was its greatest fault. Now the author is being pressed by traditionalists who are squirming to justify a horrible and terminal ethical deformity; and nonbeleivers of all stripe who see in this an opportunity to grist mill. “If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But I have called you out of the world; therefore the world hates you.” This is very classy. And by that I’m talking Kowalska class.

  12. Simcha, the last few popes have been willfully naïve about the true nature of Judaism. Catholicism has traditionally denounced Judaism(aka the heresy of the Pharisees) as Anti-Christian. The last time I looked, to be Anti-Christian was to be flagrantly evil.

    • More Catholic than the Pope: gotcha. What are you going to call this new Church you’re starting? I suggest something snazzy, like the Church of the Double Deuce.

      • “More Catholic than the Pope”. Nope, the last few popes have ignored the real history of malicious Jewish Anti-Christianism. The popes before them did not ignore it and acted to protect the church and sincere Jewish convert from it.

        • Sincere Jewish converts do need protection: “I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh.” I always think when I read Paul’s writing, that he’s speaking in the name of Christ, and that it’s Christ who’s speaking though him. What the Lord would be saying is, “I would disavow myself for the sake of those I love.” Or am I wrong?

  13. Stephen, is it possible to be an anti-Christian Catholic? If the representatives of the people of God could crucify the God-man in 33ad, why not in 2013ad? And if a remnant of the people escaped to Christianity in the apostolic age, why not now again. And if God thought well enough of you to save your sorry butt, why not more illustrious sinners who have far more in their iniquity to recommend themselves?

  14. This traditionalist (what does that word really mean except truly Catholic anyway?) LOVES Jews and all other non-Christians. I love them enough to pray for their conversion daily and to preach Christ to them at every chance. I love them enough to pray that they will imitate my paternal great, great grandfather Marx Levi and be baptized into the one Church which the Messiah founded. I love them so much that I won’t endorse the late-20th century Protestant error of Dispensationalism. I love Jews enough to long for them to be in the pews with me on Sunday. Love = sharing the Truth, and the Truth is a man named Jesus.

  15. Lord, have mercy!!!

    I bow my gentile head to the chosen people of God.

    Personally, I’m not shocked by this at all. If the enemy of our souls can’t stop a parade, he’ll lead it!

    Kathy

  16. “More Catholic than the Pope: gotcha. What are you going to call this new Church you’re starting? I suggest something snazzy, like the Church of the Double Deuce.”

    This Simcha Fischa character is becoming just as uncharitable and arrogant as Mark Shea.

    ah, what ever happen to EWTN.. Mother Angelica would not be happy about it..

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